NORTH STAR INTERVIEW: Jonah Berger, Marketing Professor/Author ['Magic Words: What to say to get your way' out April 27]

Jonah Berger isn’t one for candid photos; he’s too busy writing books, on the speaker circuit, and asking questions humanity should be asking more. I wanted to ask Jonah some questions that sprung up after reading a galley of his forthcoming book, “Magic Words: What to say to get your way“ (out April 27). We ended up discussing everything from AI to saying ‘no’; here’s a selection of what we discussed. Jonah summarises the book simply; “it helps you use language more effectively to increase our impact”. I recommend you pre-order now.

Already a prolific author (Contagious: Why Things Catch On, Invisible Influence: The Hidden Forces that Shape Behavior, and The Catalyst: How to Change Anyone’s Mind), Jonah is a Professor of Marketing at Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania and when not busy doing that (!) he advises a ton of early stage startups as well as consulting for Apple to Amazon, Google to The Gates Foundation. He’s a Dad and well-known for being a gesticulator when speaking because he’s passionate about words and clarity. Follow Jonah on Twitter and book him to speak at your next event over at jonahberger.com

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How was writing a book during the pandemic, and what changed as we emerged from the lockdowns?

The great thing about writing about the drivers of human behavior, is that they don't change a lot from year to year. People have been using language for thousands of years. The thing that's changed is we can now uncover insights about how to use it more effectively.

In your research, what surprised you the most about the power of language and the way words can influence behaviour and decision-making?

Both how frequently we use language, and yet how little we understand about how to use it more effectively. Almost everything we do involves words. From emails and power points to phone calls and pitch meetings, words are how we persuade, communicate, and connect. But certain words are more impactful than others.  They’re better at changing minds, engaging listeners, and driving action. What are these magic words, and how can we take advantage of their power?

Give people an overview of the six types of magic words you discuss in the book

I put these six types in an acronym called SPEACC. The S stands for the language of Similarity, the P stands for the language of Posing questions, the E stands for the language of Emotion, the A stands for the language of Agency and identity, the C stands for the language of Confidence, and the second C stands for the language of concreteness.  These are six key types of words you can use to increase your impact.

Saying ‘no’ is one of the most critical skills a person can learn, I am glad you brought it up in the book. Why do you think this skill isn’t taught in schools?

Saying no is always difficult, and it's something all of us can get better at. We all want to help others, and we all want to do as much as we can, but sometimes we do both ourselves and others a disservice by saying yes when we should really say no. There are a bunch of tips in the book about how to do this more effectively, and it's certainly an area I think people should learn more about

In your opinion, what is the role of ethics in using language to influence others, and how can we ensure that "magic words" are used responsibly and transparently?

Influence by itself is neither good nor bad. It's just a tool. Just like a hammer could be used to build something or hurt someone, influence can be used for good or bad as well. If we use influence to help people eat healthier, make better decisions, and live happier lives, that's clearly a good thing. But if we use influence to lead people to make bad decisions or be worse off, then it's clearly more negative.

What are two or three things in the book that most people will disagree with you about?

One thing I get a lot of pushback on is the language of confidence or certainty. If you look at charismatic leaders, startup founders, gurus, or others that lots of people listen to, one reason they're so persuasive is that they often speak with a great deal of certainty or confidence. Magic Words provides 5 or so ways people can speak more confidently, but sometimes listeners ask whether certainty is really the answer. Isn’t overconfidence a bad thing?  Don't people sometimes speak with more certainty about something than they should? And I completely agree. I'm not suggesting people should always speak with certainty, but I'm noting that certainty is often quite persuasive. That said, there are times where you want to speak with more certainty, and less, and I outline when we should do one versus the other.

You’ve written lots of books about virality, behaviour change and decision-making. How is technology impacting all three?

It's interesting, because while technology is changing some aspects of human behavior, a lot of things stay the same. People have always wanted to look good to others, for example, and accessibility, or what's top of mind, is always going to shape behavior. That said, technology has certainly shifted things on the margin. It's provided us access to lots more information, for example, which can shape how we make decisions. Similarly, technologies are changing the ways we communicate, which our research shows can affect both what people share, and its impact.

As we move into a ChatGPT/generative AI world, is spoken language becoming more important? How do we ensure the algorithms get it right and serve us (and not the other way around)?

Language has always been, and while continue to be, important. Sure, chat GPT and other technologies may make it easier to produce content, but that doesn't mean that the language it produces is the most effective at changing minds or driving action. To do that, you need to understand how people work, and what drives their behavior.

What’s next for you, can readers expect to see more books or research from you in the future?

Doing lots of research on using natural language processing to extract behavioral insights from language data, and will be doing a lot more of that in the future.

Magic Words is available for pre-order now on Amazon.